Comments on: Everything is Essential

By: Ron

Ron — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 00:26:46 +0000

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me, although I might add that the concept of “herding goats” is not found explicitly or even *implicitly* in the NT. The idea is that there are those that are His (the sheep), and when they hear the True Shepherd’s voice, they will hear Him. (John 10)

I agree with your comment about no benefit in making the gospel ‘attractive’… in fact, if one is true to the gospel message, making it attractive is impossible. The gospel will prove to be offensive to most of the ‘unregenerate.’

By: Joshua Caucutt

Joshua Caucutt — Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:59:56 +0000

I agree that the idea of “herding goats” might not explicitly appear in the NT. That is why it is important for shepherds/pastor/elder and missionaries to “endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen” as Paul writes in 2Timothy 2:10. There is no benefit to be gained by making the true Gospel attractive to individuals who are “goats”. Obviously, only God knows who is a sheep and who is a goat, so we must be faithful in presenting the Gospel to everyone.

By: Ron

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:11:33 +0000

Joshua,

Yes, the only logical conclusion from my comment would be that there is a distinction between the two roles.

Of course, that is not to say there often isn’t some ‘blurring’ of the line… missionaries certainly do pastoral work, while pastors/elders often are ‘missionaries’ in their own locale. However, the main ‘mission statement,’ if you will, of the two are very distinct, as I indicated in my original comment. The pastor is a “shepherd” to the sheep at home, while the missionary is sent (by God) to bring the message of salvation (the gospel) to the lost (and that could be anywhere).

You have missed the main point of my comment though… there is no such idea in the NT as “herding goats.” That concept is not even found in the passage I referred to (or anywhere else in the NT I might add).

So I question the source of this ‘idea,’ for it is definitely not found in Scripture.

By: Joshua Caucutt

Joshua Caucutt — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:39:07 +0000

Ron, you seem to contradict yourself in your comment – unless you are drawing a distinction between elder/pastors and missionaries. Are you saying that the job of a pastor is to sheep (elect), while that of a missionary is to goats (non-elect)?

By: Ron

Ron — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:01:33 +0000

Missions and missionaries have nothing to do with “shepherding sheep” or “not… herding goats” (where did this idea come from? Matthew 25:31-46?)!

They exist to bring the message of the (real) gospel to the lost (the perishing, the condemned, which we all were at one point, Eph. 2:1-3,12; Gal. 3:7 — yes, we were all “goats”).

This response/comment is NOT the result of “deep teaching” (or deep learning!).

The local church’s role, and the elders in particular, is to shepherd the sheep.

By: Chip

Chip — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:37:55 +0000

I am amazed at the deep level of teaching in our church. Recently my eyes were opened that even in Paul’s salutation in Titus 1:1-4 we find deep truth and sound doctrine, Essential Truths in something most people skip over. For example:

1) The Missionary exists for the elect, not for the non-elect and therefore Missions also exist for the elect and for shepherding sheep and not for herding goats.

2) The Missionary exists for the knowledge of the truth, and the truth produces Godliness. The flip side is false teaching will not produce Godliness.

There is much more packed into those four verses but these two things stood out because I had skipped over it so many times.